What3Words Not planned
Recently our local 911 dispatch center started supporting What3Words. The idea is that a hiker that is lost or in trouble could easily relay there three words and their location would be known.
There are signed posted at trailheads, with QR codes, suggesting people download the “What3Words” app. While traditional GPS coordinates are great, they are often confusing to untrained users. With the different formats, if not relayed appropriately, teams can (and have) gone to the wrong location.
What3Words offers up an alternative that is just three words. The feature request is to allow the three words to be entered into the search in CalTopo and have the map then center or marker drop that location. As an additional feature, there could be an overlay that would allow the three words to be determined for a given location on a map.
I have submitted this as a feature request but also wanted to share it here.
Comments
19 comments
This is very interesting
There is a long list of Us dispatch centers that are setup to work with What3Words. You can see the list here:
https://what3words.com/news/emergency/three-words-to-tell-us-public-safety-teams-exactly-where-you-are
As the commander of Millard Co SAR in Utah, I strongly support this feature request. Location finding in our large remote county is one of our biggest challenges.
This would be an amazing addition to CalTopo's capabilities!! I second this!
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but this is a terrible idea.
A five minute search unearths a multitude of reasons why "what3words" is a problematic (at best) technology -
https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2019/03/why-bother-with-what-three-words/
https://cybergibbons.com/security-2/why-what3words-is-not-suitable-for-safety-critical-applications/
https://www.reddit.com/r/911dispatchers/comments/olcxdv/what3words_and_why_its_trash/
I can't speak for the folks at caltopo HQ, but I do feel comfortable saying caltopo seems to prefer open source and publicly available datasets. It would seem (to me) against caltopo's grain to integrate proprietary datasets with mere theoretical utility. Anecdotal references to big PR pushes and influencer marketing should be red flags enough, but a quick read of the w3w's website confirms the quackery. Who's running this company? Where are the links to articles detailing rescues w3w has facilitated? Where's the documentation demonstrating how to integrate w3ws into paper maps or how to train first responders? All I see is marketing, marketing, and more marketing. A lot of fluff and no substance.
This response became much longer than I anticipated, if the forum mods feel it is antagonistic they should feel free to remove it. Otherwise, I would invite comments & thoughts from other caltopo users and caltopo staff.
-M
+1 on this feature request
Great addition
This would be a great addition, hope to see it soon!
Hard no. What3words is not reliable, we don't need another app for people to download to find out where they are, use the proper GPS coordinates that every phone gives you that has a real GPS. Multiple SAR groups have had problems with this system and highly recommend NOT using it.
Our local rescue does not recommend it.
North Shore Rescue says it does not support use of What3Words geolocation app - BC | Globalnews.ca
Seems silly to me to invent a new coordinate system.
I can understand the hestiancy to adopt something new. To be clear, What Three Words, is not a new coordinate system. Rather it is a simplified way for people to provide their location in lieu of trying to communicate long number strings. If it's not for you, that's fine by me. I believe the OP's post was to request What Three Words integration into CalTopo. That doesn't mean you have to use it. Just like you don't have to use ADS-B for aircraft tracking or APRS to track ham radio operators. I have many custom layers in our team account that would provide you no value, but I sure enjoy the functionality of adding those layers. The debate should not be about the validity of What Three Words. Let the end user decide that. Kind of like saying the 24-hr snowfall layer shouldn't be added because it doesn't snow in Florida. The beauty of CalTopo is it's wide range of integration and application. It's not only for SAR.
I support the integration with What Three Words. I don't know what can be done but I could see it being something as simple as a dialog box where I enter the three word code we received from a stranded party and the location is then plotted as a marker. I don't expect it to show the coded grid squares as I move my mouse across the map. That's not what I'm looking for.
Good point sir
Looking at the article posted by @martin6392 it says “North Shore Rescue is reiterating that it does not support a rescue app being promoted by North Vancouver RCMP, saying the best option for those lost or injured in the backcountry is to simply call 911.”
While calling 911 is a good (arguably the best) option, it requires cell service. I support several events that cover wide areas that do not have consistent cell service. Positions of injured participants are frequently relayed via 2-way radio. As most people dont know how to get their coordinates one of these events is recommending people download the app just in case.
As @bcoray said, I am simply asking for the option to be able to find the location on a map. So if presented with a what3words address you would have the ability to enter it in the search bar.
I personally dislike What3words and feel that SAR folks should be comfortable with Lat/Lon and UTM. However, our local dispatch center now uses it and the local fire departments like it. (Law enforcement and firefighters are used to responding to street addresses, so for them coordinate systems are a challenge and What3words is simpler). Since dispatch uses What3words and the local agencies that we respond with use it, it would be very useful for SARTopo to accept it directly, without us having to get on the web and translate What3words into a coordinate in order to add a marker for the subject location.
So, in short adding What3words support to SARTopo would save time and probably some confusion.
Just to set the record straight on this, we will not be including what3words. Any thoughts on the value of their coordinate system aside, W3W is a for-profit company and inclusion of W3W would require 1) integrating a software development kit (SDK) from them that would have a non-trivial impact on our app size and more importantly 2) paying them a license fee that would leave us exposed to future cost increases. If your dispatch center wants to tie itself to a proprietary commercial coordinate system that's their business, but our business model does not support paying license fees for a coordinate systems.
Matt, thank you for the thoughtful and thorough reply, and that makes perfect sense. I don't think dispatch centers are going to drop the use of Waht3Words so perhaps there are those in our community who can suggest the quickest way for someone to convert a What3Words location to a Lat/Lon so it could be quickly be used in SARTopo.
I assume the W3W app would be the best way to do that. While I don't know if this is something it currently supports, it would also be in the best position to support functionality like providing nearby locations that have sound-alike, plural variant, etc names that might have been misread over the phone/radio.
I will say it is dissapointing to hear that Caltopo will not intigrate with W3W. I do understand the concerns of license fees and such. As a fire chief in rural area of Massachusetts, we use both programs and it would be convient to have it all in one. Having dispatch read us 3 words over the radio Vs having to remember / write down Lat / Long coord is much easier and faster for units in the field. The data is being pushed to the dispatch centers in Massachusetts for no fee, so there is no cost or proprietary concerns. Both products are great and have there place, but again as a end user in the field it sure would be helpfull to have it all intergraded into one platform.
I don't want to give up on this, as our local departments continue to get What3Words coordinates from people, and SAR and Rescue ops are leveraging them to find the patients. By not adding a translation/lookup into CalTopo, we are slowing the response time by requiring resources to look up and translate the location information. Unless discussions have already been had, the assumption of a cost to use What3Words might be without merit. There are all kinds of data already available in Caltopo that require integration to 3rds party systems, so this is essentially the same thing.
It looks like W3W offers a free public API that is rate limited at 10 autosuggest requests per second. We use the IamResponding program also which has W3W built in to their search.
https://developer.what3words.com/public-api
Don't know if this helps or not.
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